1.12 for Rogues (First draft)

M

Moonbiter

Guest
Anshrr said:
Could a rogue post a sword spec, and a dagger spec, so I can see why sword specs get the better deal? Seems to me, you need deeper in the tree to go sword? oO

HAve to say though, just looking at the sneaky tree (subtlety), it looks better to me ^^

Quite common combat daggers build with new talents


Quite possible swords build

combat daggers misses out on weapon skill increase which is quite a lot of damage in PVE.

Above builds are just possible ones which have the main points in both possible ways to spec your rogue for pve. Something will be sacrificed by dagger rogues. Haven't looked into seal fate build improvements yet but don't even want to start :-(
 

Ayu

You need help.
Staff member
Aug 26, 2005
15,256
The Improved Spring talent looks great to me. Uses in PvP should be clear, but what if it also breaks Mindflay from AQ trash and C'Thun tentacles....?
 
M

Moonbiter

Guest
It's basically a choice between endurance and imp sprint, personal preferences probably. Situational uses, sprint has quite big cooldown and would very rarely be used in the same fight twice, it's nice once per fight maybe.
 

Ayu

You need help.
Staff member
Aug 26, 2005
15,256
1 Mindflay is enough to kill you, so having that option looks nice to me once per fight :)
 
M

Moonbiter

Guest
That's minor details, the main point for rogues to cry about is weapon expertise being so deep in combat tree. I honestly don't know how to spec my rogue now. Best option would be to pick up a decent sword and go sword spec I guess. Either that or use blue belt from DM north and MC gloves on boss fights. Kinda silly to use DM item in Naxx for example but seems that not many possibilities are left.
 

Anshrr

#1 LFR Feral for his ILVL
Oct 7, 2005
1,308
CERTAINLY NOT DENMARK EWW
I noticed some different talent points here and there, that I can't really see why should matter for dagger or sword specs. (Imp Evis, Imp SnD)
(what finisher do dagger rogues use if not evis? kidneh?)
I do somewhat see your point, but still, there are reasons for a sword spec to go higher in every tree, leaving them without skill increase as well, isn't there?
But then, you can't have everything at once. If so, sword spec + flurry would be cool on warrior, and probably lots of other barely-there specs. :\

I think all the trees look nice, especially combat and subtlety perhaps (cause I have just played a rogue on test in AV ;P), and there's alot more usefull talents that I would pick now, then there was before.
The Imp.Kidney Shot talent is awesome for ganksquads oO
 
M

Moonbiter

Guest
Anshrr said:
I noticed some different talent points here and there, that I can't really see why should matter for dagger or sword specs. (Imp Evis, Imp SnD)
(what finisher do dagger rogues use if not evis? kidneh?)

SnD is usually kept up all the time, eviscerate is used only if SnD is not ending (that's for combat daggers/swords, no clue what SF ones use the most).

Actually you hit the spot, combat daggers requires talents from three trees which is already weird, after this patch it will just scatter talents leaving more unfinished ones with one or two points in them to get to other talents.
 

Anshrr

#1 LFR Feral for his ILVL
Oct 7, 2005
1,308
CERTAINLY NOT DENMARK EWW
Well, imo sword/fist/mace rogues are the offspecs, so not surprised there are less talents they could use/need.
What it basically means is you can go down most trees for your fav 31 talent, and still pick up something for your dagger fetish on the way ^^

I feel like testing this spec when test servers go up, but kinda insecure cause of the lack of combat talents :p Might be complete rubbish ^^
(Its ofc just to try and gank in AV ;p)
 
N

Nearly

Guest
N

Nearly

Guest
Anshrr said:
Could a rogue post a sword spec, and a dagger spec, so I can see why sword specs get the better deal? Seems to me, you need deeper in the tree to go sword? oO

HAve to say though, just looking at the sneaky tree (subtlety), it looks better to me ^^

Basically, a combat dagger rogue without Opportunity is worthless - we have to have it - and the talents are designed such that we have to use 3 trees.

Swords however, only need to use 2 - and so are less compromised.

Add to that that dagger rogues *have* to be behind their target to do real damage, and can't just run along hitting it wherever - we're incredibly positionally specific in terms of mob positioning.

Normally this isn't a problem - and the increased damage that combat daggers has traditionally achieved (with equal gear) is offset by the extra factors involed.

With +skill being as important as it is, and with very few +skill swords and sword gear (ACL being +daggers), Blizz are clearly balancing out the talents such that it removes the gear dependency to a degree.

Wonder if they'll make me human if i ask nicely....

Edit: offset, not by :)
 
U

Ursanis

Guest
the whole combat dagger thing seems to be a matter of choice between weapon skill and one or two points in either lethality/relentless or opportunity....
And at least there are some choices og +dagger gear. Try having edgemasters handguards as only option ;P

Dont see much difference for seal fate tbh. except that you can get full initiative with 30/8/13. If you arent too fond of ambushing drinking mages or sumf ;P

dont listen to me tho. im only comfortable with 31/8/12, it seems ;P nice crits and enough combo points for everything
 
M

Moonbiter

Guest
There will be a choice for combat daggers to either have full lethality or drop two points of lethality and put it into weapon expertise. Seen some people calculating damage output in both cases.

The build with weapon expertise would perform slightly better than now on bosses and would lose damage on mobs of level 62 and below. Guess I'll go with the build that Nearly posted for combat daggers since trash mobs are a pain in the ass due to positioning anyway :)
 
N

Nearly

Guest
\o/ \o/ \o/

# Murder has been changed to increase damage caused against Humanoid, Giant, Beast, and Dragonkin by 1%/2%.

# Remorseless Attacks has been reduced to 2 ranks, with the new effectiveness being 20% and 40%.

# Endurance has been changed to reduce the cooldown of your Sprint and Evasion abilities by 45 sec/1.5 min. It no longer increases the duration of Evasion.

# Weapon Expertise will now increases your skill with Fist, Dagger, and Sword weapons. It will no longer affect Maces, and this change is being followed up by

# Mace Specialization will now also add 1-5 weapon skill with Maces, in addition to the stun effect the talent already provides.

# Adrenaline Rush now has a reduced cooldown of 5 min.

# Elusiveness has been reduced to a 2 point talent and now reduces the cooldown of Vanish and Blind by 45 sec/1.5 min. It no longer reduces the cooldown for Evasion.

# Opportunity is being moved to a tier 1 talent, swapping places with Camouflage.

# Ghostly Strike has been reverted back to the previous 125% weapon damage, but retains its new Energy cost of 40.

# Setup will now also provide combo points if you fully resist an attackers spell.

# Improved Rupture, Improved Cheap Shot, and Improved Garrote have been removed.

# New talent 'Serrated Blades' is a tier 4 talent in the Subtlety tree, causes your attacks to ignore X of your targets Armor, and increases the damage dealt by your Rupture ability. The amount of Armor reduced increases with your level. At level 60, the ranks will reduce target Armor by 100/200/300 respectively.

# New talent 'Dirty Deeds' replaces the Improved Cheap Shot talent, reducing the Energy cost of both the Cheap Shot and Garrote abilities by 10/20.

# Garrote, Eviscerate, and Rupture now all scale with Attack Power. The previously announced Eviscerate book will still be made available in an undisclosed location. While we had always planned to scale these abilites at a point in the future, we felt that the rank upgrade for Eviscerate and damage increase for Garotte would provide a well needed boost in the current game and carry these abilities until the scaling mechanic was implemented. Our ultimate goal to scale the abilities in a future update was decided to be moved ahead, and the current plan is to implement scaling for these abilities in 1.12, instead of in a later update.

At long last - Opportunity where it belongs :)))))

Edit: this looks nice

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/cla .... 0000000000
 

Ayu

You need help.
Staff member
Aug 26, 2005
15,256
I wonder if the Cat abilities will start to scale now, too.
 
M

Maluson

Guest
Had a quick play around with the calculator and came up with exactly the same as Nearly has. So so glad they made Camouflage T1.
Wonder if taking AR over an extra 6% damage bonus on backstab crits will be beneficial in long fights. Shame that I'll probably have to drop ruthlessness also, allowed me to get away with 2/3 Imp SnD before :)
But all in all, those are the changes I was hoping for and more. Lets hope they continue in this way.