Small bit of warrior news
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Anshrr
#1 LFR Feral for his ILVL
Re. the first thing, that's just...odd.. So does that mean that procs that occur on spellcast, now procs even if the victim had enough i.e. shadow resistance to resist the spell beeing cast?
/edit: Or, what about my Omen of Clarity? Can I get free spells now, even if I miss?
D:
Re. the second. They should be smacked in the face. Nerfing druids didn't do ANYTHING for warrior threat, as warriors still suck in holding agg vs. dps in a 5man without BoS. My guilds resident warrior (Alron) is now fury, cause prot specc felt so useless, as it's no dps for solo, and doesn't work in 5man for tanking.
Yet, druid tanks still manage to keep agg on most occasions, unless the 5man has NO clue how to assist, there's too many mobs, or the druid is eating ( :happy: ).
/edit: Or, what about my Omen of Clarity? Can I get free spells now, even if I miss?
D:
Re. the second. They should be smacked in the face. Nerfing druids didn't do ANYTHING for warrior threat, as warriors still suck in holding agg vs. dps in a 5man without BoS. My guilds resident warrior (Alron) is now fury, cause prot specc felt so useless, as it's no dps for solo, and doesn't work in 5man for tanking.
Yet, druid tanks still manage to keep agg on most occasions, unless the 5man has NO clue how to assist, there's too many mobs, or the druid is eating ( :happy: ).
Natalya
Member
- Oct 22, 2005
- 530
No, we are talking about defensive talents that proc when being the victim of a critical strike. For instance, 2/2 Martyrdom gives you uninterrupted casting for 6 seconds after being the victim of a critical strike. Without the aforementioned fix, stocking up on resilence gear would make this talent useless or at least a lot less effective. With the change, it can still proc, even if you max out resilence.Anshrr said:
- Aug 26, 2005
- 15,256
Curious how the tanking change (if there is one) will work out in the end. I wish they'd be done with the retweaking very soon so people can decide which class to invest in after all. Currently, as a Druid, I am still not even sure if all the direct and indirect buffs of Bear tanking are intended and will actually stay like that or if that is only temporary. Would help to know what they have in mind.
New Tseric post:
Some would regard it as a buff, some as a non-nerf, some as a bug fix, some as simply a change. I lean towards the latter of the two.
The devs would agree. From what they've seen, warrior tanks tend to out-perform hybrid tanks in raid encounters. Rage mechanics lend themselves better to larger hits and crits from bosses and that won't drastically change in the near future. Threat generation can be separated from damage through game mechanics and the warrior tank ends up as more definitive as a tank in a raid situation. Pallys and Druids have good off-tank, multi-target abilities, which means they can clean up a sloppy pull or peeling targets better than a single target threat generator like the Warrior. The Warrior requires more twitch and target switching to hold aggro on multiple targets.
Agreed, yet this will be the crux of the more hybrid classes. They may be called on to operate in other ways. A Paladin main tank might run into mana efficiency issues. A druid tank might run into mitigation/rage issues. They may be called on to heal or dps or buff, but during that time they won't be tanking. Those will be real demands from a smaller raid group or even a 5-person group.
Hyperbolic. What's a rage generation 'table'? While there may be threat generation issues to work out, rage normalization fears should only be relegated to the over-geared. Armor mitigating rage generation is something the devs are aware of, but it is far from 'broken'. Change could be made, but at the moment that is neither here nor there. As for consistently nerfed damage, a mechanic that has the potential to generate infinite damage will usually seem like it has to be nerfed, because mathmatically rage mechanics have no top end. You're always trying to keep it in reason against a zero line. Subtractive changes, not additive are more of the common course.
Druids are high on situational appeal. Yes, their tanking will serve a purpose, but that "new hotness" feel will wither like any other class balance issue that folks butt heads over. Same as it ever was.
I think they'd agree with you on that. I know I do.
I wish all class forums would do the same. Rogues and warlocks arguing. Pallys/Druids arguing with Warriors. Priests/Shaman just wanting to hate themselves. Mages have always been crazy...And Hunter's? Dealt with some recent nerfs fairly reasonably, so cheers to them. If they complain about this post, tell them I said to sic their pet on me and I hope they spec'ed BM.
Reasonable advice for any class. Bug reports and specific reports of effects and abilities are more accessible than term papers and sweeping theories of game design. That's not to say we can't talk about sweeping theories of game design, but doing so is more suggestion or opinion than feedback. You'll find less concrete response in your 'treatise of how [x] class should be revised, revamped or completely deleted' than you would with 'ability [y] seems to function wierd in [z] way'.
And as a final note, the devs don't like nerfing, they like buffing. As it stands, they see legitimate issues of class balance for Warriors and Shaman in the current situation. Changes may occur to any and all other classes, as per usual, but those are points of concern for the devs. Try not to wrap those legitimate concerns in too much exaggeration. Don't tell me it can't happen; I've already seen it.
Slanche. [/quote:5b5c8]
Some would regard it as a buff, some as a non-nerf, some as a bug fix, some as simply a change. I lean towards the latter of the two.
The devs would agree. From what they've seen, warrior tanks tend to out-perform hybrid tanks in raid encounters. Rage mechanics lend themselves better to larger hits and crits from bosses and that won't drastically change in the near future. Threat generation can be separated from damage through game mechanics and the warrior tank ends up as more definitive as a tank in a raid situation. Pallys and Druids have good off-tank, multi-target abilities, which means they can clean up a sloppy pull or peeling targets better than a single target threat generator like the Warrior. The Warrior requires more twitch and target switching to hold aggro on multiple targets.
Agreed, yet this will be the crux of the more hybrid classes. They may be called on to operate in other ways. A Paladin main tank might run into mana efficiency issues. A druid tank might run into mitigation/rage issues. They may be called on to heal or dps or buff, but during that time they won't be tanking. Those will be real demands from a smaller raid group or even a 5-person group.
Hyperbolic. What's a rage generation 'table'? While there may be threat generation issues to work out, rage normalization fears should only be relegated to the over-geared. Armor mitigating rage generation is something the devs are aware of, but it is far from 'broken'. Change could be made, but at the moment that is neither here nor there. As for consistently nerfed damage, a mechanic that has the potential to generate infinite damage will usually seem like it has to be nerfed, because mathmatically rage mechanics have no top end. You're always trying to keep it in reason against a zero line. Subtractive changes, not additive are more of the common course.
Druids are high on situational appeal. Yes, their tanking will serve a purpose, but that "new hotness" feel will wither like any other class balance issue that folks butt heads over. Same as it ever was.
I think they'd agree with you on that. I know I do.
I wish all class forums would do the same. Rogues and warlocks arguing. Pallys/Druids arguing with Warriors. Priests/Shaman just wanting to hate themselves. Mages have always been crazy...And Hunter's? Dealt with some recent nerfs fairly reasonably, so cheers to them. If they complain about this post, tell them I said to sic their pet on me and I hope they spec'ed BM.
Reasonable advice for any class. Bug reports and specific reports of effects and abilities are more accessible than term papers and sweeping theories of game design. That's not to say we can't talk about sweeping theories of game design, but doing so is more suggestion or opinion than feedback. You'll find less concrete response in your 'treatise of how [x] class should be revised, revamped or completely deleted' than you would with 'ability [y] seems to function wierd in [z] way'.
And as a final note, the devs don't like nerfing, they like buffing. As it stands, they see legitimate issues of class balance for Warriors and Shaman in the current situation. Changes may occur to any and all other classes, as per usual, but those are points of concern for the devs. Try not to wrap those legitimate concerns in too much exaggeration. Don't tell me it can't happen; I've already seen it.
Slanche. [/quote:5b5c8]
Anshrr
#1 LFR Feral for his ILVL
He's such a tosser. Have they even fucking done a 5 man since BC came out?
Warriors can't hold agg against my dps worth shit.
Druids can hold agg on several mobs, one mob at a time is just even easier.
Sorry, the problem with warriors is that they can't hold agg vs the rest of the team, not vs tanking druids. Nerfing the druids that have to tank cause warriors don't wanna, doesn't help the warrior retain aggro when I dps without salva. :X
Warriors can't hold agg against my dps worth shit.
Druids can hold agg on several mobs, one mob at a time is just even easier.
Wth? The only times I have "rage issues" is if I wear too good gear compared to what I'm tanking. Even then it's just a matter of pulling more mobs :<
Sorry, the problem with warriors is that they can't hold agg vs the rest of the team, not vs tanking druids. Nerfing the druids that have to tank cause warriors don't wanna, doesn't help the warrior retain aggro when I dps without salva. :X
- Aug 26, 2005
- 15,256
Anshrr said:
Nah, but it does destroy the diversity. One thing still going for a Druid tank is the superior threat (although the Paladin seems to beat everyone there) even with the threat nerf. The other thing is that Druids are situationally better tanks on physical damage bosses however the thing that bugs me is the gear. Warriors get specialized epics and Druids achieve the same with specialized blues/green leather items and epic rings and necklaces. That gotta tell you something about how strong the Bear mod is. However, do we know that it will stay like that after knowing that? Think about it: If they itemize for the Bear like they do for the Warrior (specialized gear), there'd be no point in bringing Prot Warriors anymore apart from 1 token Magic damage tank Warrior.
I really hope they don't destroy the fine line of diversity the tanks currently have to please some Warrior fanbois.
Anshrr
#1 LFR Feral for his ILVL
All BC weapons with +Feral AP, has had their dps equally nerfed (so in moonkin, the dps is the same)...... but you probably knew that 
I just wished they'd make warriors the multiple target kings, and bears superior for single target tanking over time. That way I'd be leet for tanking bosses, and the warriors would be better for trash. Heck, they could do the bosses too, not as good doesn't necessarily mean bad. Which is what I think Blizzard feels :<
I just wished they'd make warriors the multiple target kings, and bears superior for single target tanking over time. That way I'd be leet for tanking bosses, and the warriors would be better for trash. Heck, they could do the bosses too, not as good doesn't necessarily mean bad. Which is what I think Blizzard feels :<
- Aug 26, 2005
- 15,256
Anshrr said:All BC weapons with +Feral AP, has had their dps equally nerfed (so in moonkin, the dps is the same)...... but you probably knew that
I just wished they'd make warriors the multiple target kings, and bears superior for single target tanking over time. That way I'd be leet for tanking bosses, and the warriors would be better for trash. Heck, they could do the bosses too, not as good doesn't necessarily mean bad. Which is what I think Blizzard feels :<
Druids currently are the best tanks for high burst physical damage fights actually. They lose when you take magical burst into account though. Not saying that a Druid couldn't tank a magical burst fight or a Warrior couldn't tank a physical burst fight but there is a slight advantage for the respective tanks.